Posts by not a captive

69

Jehovah's Witnesses and Calvinistic Predestination

by AllTimeJeff in

this is a complex question, and i just want to get a discussion started on the message of jehovah's witnesses and how it relates to their adventist roots, and esp calvinism.. bear with me, i will try to be concise.. we all know that while jehovah's witnesses like to deny adventist roots, that it is clear that according to them, the man jesus selected to get the whole thing started, c t russell, was heavily influenced by adventist ideas, esp the (adventist) idea that has really never left them; the idea that somehow, a time date or period can be inferred from the bible if you read certain scriptures through an adventist lens.

(thus, the 2520 years, 7 gentile times, etc.).

so while this is relatively well known, there is a concept that jehovah's witnesses teach against, yet practice.

not a captive

It is clear to me that these kind of theological discussions had no part of Jesus' ministry.

Does God, through Jesus, reach the most oppressed of humanity--uneducated women in burdened lives who have child after child in poverty-?

If he does, then what does all this have to do with it?

What I want to know is this: in whatever misery of life, do I have value to God at least?

If you say "NO" then I do not want your gospel no matter how correct the theology.

Don't tell the poor that if God loved you then you wouldn't be poor.

Many of us are just happy to know that he cares.

127

LOVE your ENEMIES: where Jesus goes wrong

by Terry in

matthew 5:44 "but i say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,.

luke 6:35 "but love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return.

the most radical teaching attributed to jesus has implications if followed.. an invading hoarde of mongols would not be resisted.. a christian husband would not only allow his wife and daughters to be raped; he would be compelled to forgive the rapist, pray for him and offer.

not a captive

Is living in a world of love better than living in a world of hate?

If so, how should people behave toward one onother?

127

LOVE your ENEMIES: where Jesus goes wrong

by Terry in

matthew 5:44 "but i say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,.

luke 6:35 "but love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return.

the most radical teaching attributed to jesus has implications if followed.. an invading hoarde of mongols would not be resisted.. a christian husband would not only allow his wife and daughters to be raped; he would be compelled to forgive the rapist, pray for him and offer.

not a captive

Michelle, I find your comments answer or at least cleave to the real heart of this thread: no one can answer this question for some one else.

Every day that I have been out from under the burden of religion I find how easily I am drawn into responses resemble the thing that I fled. I do not believe that formulating orthodoxy ( that is essentially what this style of debate does) provides any direction for being led by the spirit of God.

The idea of a molester is the primary example for examining the dispute of Jesus' saying "love your enemies" in this discussion. Now, you gave the example of your own experience as one who wished to move beyond being a victim. I had a friend who was molested by her older brother from early childhood and on for years. But this does not provide a ground for expressing a rule of conduct either. You so aptly gave the words of 1 Cor. 2:6,7,11.

Terry, I think that it is true that none of us can tell another what to do. But some of us do listen to what Jesus told us was a good way to go. We listen to him because he did do what you have so convincingly insist is unjust and wrong: he said to love your enemy.

I believe that it is not for us to argue it on this or any other post. I believe more every minute that Jesus outrageous behavior is for individuals to deal with. I do not believe it is the place for any of us to diminish his words, however. The stinking church "Fathers" had no business undermining Jesus' teachings with their theology on what constitutes a 'Just War'.

And Deputy dog, where do you get that Jesus isn't our teacher? He said he was at Matthew 23:8-10.

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Years ago I saw a king snake consume a copperhead snake that matched it in length and width. How could this happen? I cannot tell you how. But I watched it happen. From the first to the last. Isn't this impossible? I would think so. But it did happen. Starting at the head, and it took something like an hour for the event to take place. They were at the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket. Eventually there was only one snake.

It may be a completely off-the-wall idea, but what seems impossible may not be. What Jesus teaches was not meant to be a religion. It is meant to be a teaching. We can try to be as crazy as Jesus and follow him.But let's not make it mandatory, let's just affirm that Jesus did say it. He gave us peace.I hope for that peace.

If some one has a "peace" to offer those who suffer torment and abuse to themselves and their loved ones, good. But we don't need a doctrine from either side do we? Can't we let individuals contend with Jesus' crazy love teaching in their own unorthodox way ?

Maeve

12

Opinions Please

by IMHO in

jw
friends

.

a husband and wife have a mutual close friend.

the husband is working all day and this close friend comes to stay for the week.. .

not a captive

It is a hurtful situation. The husband created an unhappy situation for his wife. To have a male friend stay with her when her husband is gone at the least makes her an object of gossip. Spending long hours with a friend of the opposite sex without your husband around sets up a special bond with a man that is normally reserved for her husband.

Why would a husband do this? I agree with oz, the couple are not communicating. And the wife and the mutual friend might. Hurtful, very hurtful. For everyone.

I would ask my husband --Why?

27

Personal Story: Trying to Help the Flock

by OnTheWayOut in

and told him that we needed to handle both cases.

and his buddy.

's buddy on the case.

not a captive

When you see a good elder--who tries to follow Jesus--has to bite his tongue because the Organization demands it, then you know it is time to leave.

34

Are the JWs a dangerous cult?

by cyberjesus in

is it a matter of just biblical interpretation?

are they just a little lost?

or are they really a dangerous cult?

not a captive

P.S. Of course the JWs are a dangerous cult. If your life is in danger of being lost by arsenic, plastic explosives or the insidious destruction of the Organization it is in danger. The JWs rob us of our individual conscience.

34

Are the JWs a dangerous cult?

by cyberjesus in

is it a matter of just biblical interpretation?

are they just a little lost?

or are they really a dangerous cult?

not a captive

Absolutism assumes that all humans everywhere need exactly the same things, have the same situation and feel the same about everything.

That's simply not true, and probably why there will never be a world wide religion or philosophy that suits everyone. The Witnesses are only able to achieve the appearance of "universal brotherhood", by which they mean uniformity of teaching and thought, by very strict control of thought and imput, and even then, it's mere appearance.

Thank you. May I piggy back off that thought to isay that the idea of Orthodoxy that Rufus drops on this idea of the JW cult is also misguided? Since it seems clear (correct me someone) that for approximately 15 years after Jesus died the early Christians didn't have a council to establish the intricate doctrines that let us know who to burn at the stake and who to elect pope. Therefore the council that convened in Nicea @ 325 C.E. had nothing good to say to Christians. Not then, not now.

Absolutism is religion. Religion is absolutism.

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Any edict that is determined by committee, an "official" committee, Is worthless.

Any time Christians get "cornered-up" (as they say around the Ozarks) and told that to be "orthodox" they have to believe so-and-soit is wrong.

Rufus may be on the right track in some ways but he is all wrong about that Trinity stuff.

Most folks that buy into the Trinity have no trouble at all shooting the shit out of each other under orders from what-ever-government tells them to do so. Think about it. So that ain't universal brotherhood neither.

If God is a God worth his salt he is a lot more wild and open than "governing bodies" and Councils of ???? suggest. It isn't that God doesn't have standards , but he is not stupid.

Religious absolutism is anti-God.

Maeve

159

Getting into Arguments with JW's...

by ForbiddenFruit in

i'm trying to fade away, but i sometimes find myself in discussions or arguments with jw family/friends/white haired virgin elders.

now, i usually have them beat on things but i'm not very experienced, so i was thinking if you guys could help me put together a list of completely unanswerable questions to pose to my jw friends/family/elders so they can stop bugging me.

if i keep asking them questions they simply cannot answer, then they might leave them alone.

not a captive

Yes, I am MIA. My job ends today. A little chaos and a lot of relief & sadness. (I love the little boy I take care of). Life is upside down. I hope to get on board the train soon. Maeve

23

So, Who Really DOES Write the WT? ( A LONG But Worthy Post)

by AGuest in

jw
friends

" 1 john 2:26-28. .

"when the time comes to clarify a spiritual matter in our day, holy spirit helps responsible representatives of "the faithful and discreet slave" at world headquarters to discern deep truths that were not previously understood.

nor does it say, "helps the governing body.

not a captive

Thanks for the interest, friends. I will be glad to post the correspondence between myself and the Organization. I will find a way to --scan it?

For me, the interesting retrospective on it is the progressive way that a mind can thread its may out of captivity when it does hang on to a single thread. I say it took a year to get out. But the beginning started long before that. I don't expect everyone to come to the same conclusion I do but no one can "unconconvince" me--certainly the Branch didn't. I told the brothers that whether or not I was right or wrong in my conclusions I had to stand before God with my conscience and they were wrong to compel me or anyone against--even the Organizations own references!

The reason I've been off the board is my job ends today. I take care of a great little boy with severe disabilities. I love him. There have been a lot of closing details to deal with and I wasn't able to check the thread.

Good idea about starting another thread on this.

Maeve

7

A pleasant side effect of leaving the borg...... no longer afraid of criticism

by cult classic in

i realized not too long ago that my hypersensitivity to criticism has vanished.

i now take correction as it is meant to be given.

i no longer have a pit in my stomach if i'm wrong about something.

not a captive

CC, I think it feels good not to take so many other factors into consideration when you just want to go on something like, say, a picnic and you have to wonder if you are going to violate some kind of WT rule.

Will this make me too tired to get up tomorrow?

Will I get my study done?

Will someone think I'm celebrating Mother's day?

AM I celebrating Mother's Day?

Is what I'm wearing appropriate?

Will THEY think it is appropriate?

Is my car clean enough?

Am I clean enough?

Does this sound stupid?

I never worried about God's approval, what crept up on me was the judgement of the people around me. Actions and thoughts were supposed to be "Godly" but were just strange and convoluted.